I first discovered Joe Rogers through his YouTube channel, where his videos showcase his skill in playing pedal steel as well as his ability to replicate (or “hack,” as he calls it) the iconic tones of legendary players. Later, when I found out he was developing TONEX amp models, I contacted him to buy one, and it absolutely blew me away. This led to further conversations and eventually to this interview. Here, Joe shares his journey from discovering pedal steel guitar to performing with big names like Lee Ann Womack and Tracy Byrd, his process and inspiration behind creating TONEX amp models, and insights into technology’s role in music. He also discusses upcoming projects and how to connect with him for those interested in his tone models.
Background
Can you share a bit about your background in pedal steel guitar and your experiences performing with artists like Tracy Byrd?
I was about 4 years old and at someone else’s home when I ran across a baby grand piano. Within minutes I found the melody to “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” and when the adult owner of the house discovered me playing, she told my mother, “Your son plays the piano well” to which my mom replied, “He has never seen a piano in his life..!!” At about 8 years old, I started tinkering with 6 string guitar, becoming a solo singer playing rhythm guitar and singing in bars when I was about 15. While singing alone, I would mentally picture the entire band playing along in my mind and my thoughts seemed to gravitate to the steel guitar fills and solos. I first came into contact with pedal steel right about that time. A local player had a ZB Custom. I put my feet on the pedals and was instantly fascinated. At 19, I met Herb Remington at a VFW and took him up on an invitation to visit his Houston shop. I walked in and Hal Rugg‘s Altered Ego album was playing on the loudspeakers. Right away I asked Herb, “Who is that playing, and do you have a copy of that album?” I wasn’t walking out of there without it, it made an instant impression on me. I also walked out with a Sho-Bud Super Pro.
I attended Jeff Newman‘s weeklong boot camp and things blossomed from there. Jeff taught you how to teach yourself. More than once I would find myself in situations where I was asked to play a song I had never before played on steel, but because I had sung the song years prior and had that mental picture of the band playing around me, I found I had instant recall of intros, fills, and endings even though I had never before played the notes on a pedal steel. But, through learning music and the steel guitar fretboard, I found that it just wasn’t a difficult recall whatsoever.
I moved to Nashville in December 1989 and played for McBride & the Ride opening shows for The Judds on their Farewell Tour, Wynonna Judd on her debut tour, Paulette Carlson (of Highway 101), Larry Stewart (lead singer of Restless Heart), Bryan White, Chely Wright, Lee Ann Womack, Jo-EL Sonnier, and currently with Tracy Byrd.
Creating Tone Models
What inspired you to start creating tone models for the TONEX platform?
A friend of mine who is a recording studio genius approached me about modeling steel guitar amps for him. He had purchased a few Kempers and had already modeled all of his bass amps. At this time, he became a budding steel guitar player. He provided one of his Kempers and I spent the next 2-3 years profiling amps on that platform. When I caught wind of the NAMM buzz surrounding the Neural DSP Quad Cortex and its incorporation of AI modeling, I was immediately enthralled. I told two friends about it who made purchases before I ever got mine. Again, the selling point was the newest technology of incorporating Artificial Intelligence into the creation of the amp models. I felt it represented a new generation of amp modeling with greater accuracy, and I was right. Several other companies then followed suit such as IK Multimedia with their TONEX eco-system and software modelers such as NAM (Neural Amp Modeler).
At what point did you decide to make these amp models available to the public?
I didn’t start out with a plan to offer my amp models to the public. I did want to make an attempt to profile every rare and vintage amp that I could get my hands on…simply to archive that sound for history in the event these rare amps were ever rendered inoperable. As my amp collection grew, I let a few friends hear recorded examples of what I was creating. At one point, a steel player posted a request about a particular amp model on Facebook. A friend pointed the guy toward me and that player contacted me requesting a model of a popular and quite expensive amplifier, which I had in my stable. I gave the model to the guy and he thanked me. I made a halfway joking comment something to the effect of, “if you ever feel led to buy me a cup of coffee, I won’t turn you down.” I never got a single response from the guy, complete silence as if I had insulted him.
What he didn’t understand is that I have literally driven thousands of miles on the road traveling to these amplifiers, spent thousands of dollars purchasing rare amps to model, and spent thousands of hours performing the actual modeling. It takes approximately 3 hours to completely model one single amp. What he didn’t understand is the pain and frustration of burning up 2 Quad Cortex circuit boards and one vintage amp in my 3-year quest to model a Sho-Bud Single Channel Blackface (which I have now successfully completed). For someone to extend their hand expecting me to freely give out a tool that cost me in terms of time, money, and frustration knowing fully well that HE will make money with that same tool, instantly put a bad taste in my mouth. In that one moment I had actually decided that no one else would ever get another amp model from me. It started out as a labor of love, and I wanted to keep it that way.
It wasn’t until a visit from my close friend and mentor Johnny Cox that the excitement I saw in his face playing through my amp models made me have a complete and total change of heart. He posted Facebook videos of him playing through the TONEX and the excitement and satisfaction I got from that softened me up to the point of deciding to release the models to the public. I will add that the testimonials I have gotten from players have been humbling and confirmed to me that I made the right choice to release them to the public. I have seen more than one well-known pro player who operated by an “amp-only policy” have a complete about-face experience the moment they played through the models. They weren’t for one moment expecting THAT sound to come out of a small digital box. As Johnny Cox put it to me, “How could I not be happy, I now have a 300-watt Sho-Bud amp.”
Do you have any thoughts for players who feel strongly attached to traditional amps and view modeling technology as less “authentic”?
My philosophy is not to avoid investing in amplifiers in favor of modeling, but rather to preserve classic amps. The road is quite brutal, and we all know what live gigs will do to our gear. Rather than subject a rare or vintage amp to this abuse, playing through a modeler actually preserves the amp. Also, when one enjoys the sound of an amp model, it makes one want to own the real thing. I profiled a rare Emmons Lashley LeGrande 600 amp. Through amp modeling, a player can enjoy the sound of this rare amp while waiting for one to eventually pop up for sale. Case in point – steel forums are full of players posting their desire to purchase Standel amps.
What sets your TONEX models apart from others on the market?
I can’t really answer that one as I am not familiar with what everyone else is doing. I had contacted Michael Britt who was very generous in sharing a few Kemper profiles of Nashville 400’s that he had created. He realized that amp models for the pedal steel guitar was a fairly limited market at the time and felt that it wouldn’t be a big seller for him, so he had no qualms with sharing his knowledge or the few captures he created. My knowledge of modeling has been a gradual progression, going from a Kemper, to the Quad Cortex, to TONEX, to software modeling. Each platform has its own idiosyncrasies and workflow, and the entirety has been a learning experience in helping to integrate the concepts of modeling into a fairly cohesive process for me.
Can you walk us through your process for creating a new tone model?
I don’t want to appear vague in my answer, but the reply is similar to responding to the question, “How do you come up with a musical solo.” It is part science, and part art with a greater emphasis on art. It starts with finding the best tonal voice(s) of the amp in question. What you are creating is a snapshot of one voice of an amplifier that may have many voices. I try to look for a voice that is fairly universal in appeal, knowing it will not appeal to ALL players. When the modeling process creates that particular snapshot, boosting the bass after the fact is NOT the same as boosting the bass on the amp in question. To get THAT sound more accurately, you would have to create a new capture with the bass boosted on the original amp. So, the extra time spent dialing in the amp sound is extremely critical. I do try to create several voices to cover different players’ sonic styles.
From there, proper gain staging is the most important factor throughout the entire modeling process. The wild card here (at least with TONEX) is the audio interface you happen to be using. The Neural DSP Quad Cortex does not require an audio interface, but every other solution does. Every audio interface is different and though my current interface is the Apollo X8, I spent 2 months jumping through hoops to get the Apollo software to properly communicate with the TONEX software. I am sure a certain percentage of TONEX owners do not have an audio interface, and of those that do, the capturing procedures vary greatly because of the differences of these interfaces. So, I cannot give a stock answer on the steps involved with modeling on the TONEX due to the wide variance of interface specifics.
Once I create the profile of the amplifier, I put it in the context of a studio mix to hear how the recorded amp sits in the mix. At this point I add a cab impulse response, and I may tweak several different impulse responses together to arrive at one IR that is a “compilation” of multiple speakers. I export the amp model as well as the cab IR and any customer wanting the amp, gets the corresponding cab IRs as well.
How has your experience as a touring and studio musician influenced your approach to creating tone models?
I attended the Hank Thompson School of Country Music in 1977. One of my classes was Recording Studio Technology, so I have been exposed to recording gear since I was 17. When I moved to Nashville and got the opportunity to record, I would always go into the control room to visually scan the gear in the racks. I always asked knowledgeable engineers what gear they were using on my tracks and why. Since creating amp models and working with Cab IR’s, I now have a better understanding of how different mic types, as well as mic placement, affect the recorded sound. This is a big help in creating and matching the proper cab IRs to the amp model.
Your YouTube channel features a series of ‘tone hacking’ videos where you replicate the iconic sounds of some of the greatest steel guitar players. What inspired you to start creating these videos, and how has that process influenced your approach to tone modeling?
I have such a HUGE respect for the true pioneers and legends of steel guitar…both current and past. They are the true creators. They say that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. In one sense, my attempt at the hacking was to see how close I could come to the mark. In another sense, it was to pay homage to the giants…. I wouldn’t say that I ever had a particular player’s tone in mind when modeling an amp. As mentioned earlier, the goal in modeling has always been to try to tweak the amp to get the most “universal” sound as possible…one that a large segment of players will find useful in their work. One of my selling points is that I offer custom tweaking. If a player likes a certain amp model, but wants it tweaked after the fact, I have the ability to do so. I want the end user to have a tool that will be an asset to their work and provide usability long after I’m gone.
Thoughts on Studio vs. Live Performance
What challenges do you face as a touring musician, and how have your tone models helped you address those issues on stage?
I had never really used in-ear monitors much until I got with Tracy Byrd. That has been a bit of a learning curve, but not really that bad. Because my amp models and cab IRs were created to stand out in a DAW mix, I find they translate extremely well on in-ears. As for studio, I have a bad tendency to lay back a tad too much in the bigger sessions. Bearing down on the volume pedal doesn’t create a problem with the majority of my amp models, sometimes the engineer will augment the incoming signal through the use of studio preamps.
How does your approach to tone and gear differ when you’re in the studio compared to performing live?
Not that much. I always try to make sure the steel tone as well as playing approach “fit” the song in question. So, I may choose tube amps for vintage tone or West Coast sounds, whereas I’ll gravitate more toward a warm solid state sound for a more traditional Nashville 90’s type sound.
In what ways does the TONEX platform factor into your decision-making process for both studio recordings and live performances? Do you find that it offers distinct advantages in one setting over the other?
I mostly use the Quad Cortex on the road and in the studio, not necessarily because it sounds better, but because the flexibility in routing is so much better. And it should be…the Quad Cortex is a $1700 product. If I were to use the TONEX platform exclusively, I would most definitely use a high quality DI coming out of the unit. I’m talking Passive DI’s like the Radial, or Active DI’s like the Warm Audio or Neve RNDI. A lot more money, but as they say, you get what you pay for.
Thoughts on Technology
How do you see technology impacting pedal steel guitar players today? Are there any trends you’re particularly excited about?
At the time of this writing, TONEX is coming out with their FRFR (full range, flat response) cab which is supposed to be a cut above what is currently available on the market. So far, the early reviews are really good. I’m excited to hear what they will bring to the table for a live gig. It is 300 watts, so it should have plenty of power onstage for steel players. Also, the Chinese companies have just now gotten into the game with a new release from Mooer. Too early to know the product quality as well as how it will impact the current market.
What are your thoughts on the role of AI in shaping the future of music technology? How do you see it influencing the creative process for musicians and the tools available for pedal steel players specifically?
As one writer put it, “Regarding AI, I am both excited and saddened at the same time.” I am all for AI assisting in the development of tools to make legitimate music creation easier. I use the term “legitimate” meaning a musician actually going through the traditional creative process with the tools. When it becomes a situation of the AI performing the actual creation, then I don’t consider that legitimate and has the dangerous potential of taking work away from musicians who spent years getting skilled at their craft. We are already seeing that take place.
Upcoming Projects
Can you share any upcoming projects or tone models you’re excited about?
There is a local whiz kid down here in Louisiana who is refurbishing some choice amplifiers. His company is called Magnolia Amplification. I have had the wonderful opportunity to profile some of his clients’ amps (with their permission of course) and the results have been tremendous. We’re talking a 71 Twin Reverb, 68 Showman, modded Session 400 Ltd. I’ve recently modeled a 63 Creamback Bassman and 68 Bandmaster that I am really happy about. So, the choice amps are really starting to come my way.
Is there anything you can speak to regarding a potential partnership with IK Multimedia?
Nothing in the pipeline at the moment.
How can people reach out to you if they’re interested in purchasing your tone models? Do you have any plans for a dedicated website or platform to showcase your work?
At the moment I have no plans for a website, although that could change at any moment…LOL..!! I can be reached on Facebook as well as through the Steel Guitar Forum. The Steel Guitar Forum offers both Private Messaging and Email access. I do prefer the email route simply because I don’t want to clog the system via multiple back and forth Private Messages, but again, I can be reached by any of these means. Once contacted, I send out a pdf FAQ document which explains where we are with choices in the current modeling world as well as what amp models that I offer. I want the player to know up front what tools are available. A player may think they are saving money with one product only to find through my document that the product of their choosing may actually not meet their needs at all. Having the information in hand BEFORE their hardware purchase just makes for a more informed purchase. I sort of lift the cover on their hardware BEFORE the purchase providing information on what they won’t normally find out until after purchase.
Joe’s Photos
Joe was kind enough to share some photos of some of the drool-worthy amps and gear he uses.
